TLS EXCLUSIVE: THIS POST HAS BEEN POSTED WITH DA'AS TORAH AND WAS NOW REMOVED WITH DA'AS TORAH.
Tuesday, July 28, 2009
TLS EXCLUSIVE: Rav Belsky On Recent Molestation Case
TLS EXCLUSIVE: THIS POST HAS BEEN POSTED WITH DA'AS TORAH AND WAS NOW REMOVED WITH DA'AS TORAH.
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88 comments:
This is getting juicy. Just perfect for the nine days. My money is against belsky though. Wish it were untrue also. But sometimes you need to face it and move forward.
it could be in this case it is false HOWEVER that doesn't mean that the other cases are false. GET THAT CLEAR.
happygirl
b'h the truth is coming out.anyone who knows him knew that it was totally false.i just hope the same people who spread this rumor will publicly say this part.this person suffered enough.
Relax happygirl and change your name for a Edila website......
Rabbi * Who was Moiser should be burned and stripped of his Rabbonus and position.
I just spoke to Rabbi Belsky my self and he told me that this molestation story never happened.
what is an edila website? please explain
How does Rov of Lakewood have access to the internet? Are only the Rabbonim allowed access? The bottom line is Rov of Lakewood is not a Rav - he is a lowlife.
I don't understand why the supposed "victim" didn't at least first try to involve the bachur's Rosh Yeshiva to see if he can get to the bottom of the matter..
bottom of what matter???
To 11:48, It is not a religious matter, it is a police matter. What up!!!!!!
now lets see vos iz neis retract their story.after they were motzie shem rah,how will they correct it?? just stay tuned until you hear the real story,its only a matter of time !!
It is so refreshing to see that R Belski Shlita is willing to go against the grain and call a spade a spade, even though he knows that he will get alot of flack for it. How unusual!
its a machloikes haposkim
I think its time for a boycott of VIN.
Take a look at the comments and recent posts there....sick how leftist and anti frum they've become!!
Try posting a comment that is negetive towards them, they won't post it.
TLS, kol hakvod. Keep up the good work!
If the accusations were really sheker, how did it get all over the internet? The internet is a tool, but can be very dangerous, it can destroy a person in the blick of an eye (or the click of a mouse). People had better watch what they post on the internet so freely, and what they believe from reading the blogs. Nitzor Leshoncha marah....
Once again, lets blame the "moiser" and sweep everything under the rug
TLS- why are you not posting any comments questioning the psak of Rabbi Belsky?? If you are a news source with comments you should allow both sides to post and not censor out the comments you think are questioning this story.
How can Rabbi Belsky know the story did NOT happen? Its much easier to confirm a story DID in fact happen than vice versa.
To me it sounds like another wonderful cover up!!
"I think its time for a boycott of VIN"
iv'e long ago not looked at that trash site.
Anonymous said...
TLS- why are you not posting any comments questioning the psak of Rabbi Belsky?? If you are a news source with comments you should allow both sides to post and not censor out the comments you think are questioning this story.
July 28, 2009 12:28 PM
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Go to vosizneias.com if you would like to question one of the Gedolei Hador!!
That is why we read thelakewoodscoop, because he doesn't allow you sickos to vent your Kefira on this kosher website.
You don't and never will come close to Harav Hatzadik Rav Belsky Shlita.
You sit there like a coward and anonomously question ower leaders??
TLS fan
Get Real!
Judges dont order somone held on 125,000.00 bail if there is no evidence.
this is FAR from a cover up.just ask the people that know. a number of rabonim that delved deeply into this story and have come to the same conclusion.TLS knows exactly what they are talking about.just wait and see when the real story hits the streets of lakewood !!!
I still feel the father should have gone to Rav Belsky first BEFORE going to the police..
Can these rabbonim please tell us why they beleive the man is innocent.
The police claim to have hard evidence and the judge apparently thinks so also because he orderd the man held on $125,000.00 bail. You can call the O.C. prosocuter or cops yourself if you want to confirm this.
its none of ur business what his its none of ur business what his father did or didn't do. u mindless pple stop judging everyone else's actions. if u want to do something about it you know what you need to do. and if u dont know then just shut up and stop posting all this garbage. its making me sick.
victim
000646,
If I was the Rov, I certainly wouldn't tell YOU or people like YOU the reason why the bachur is innocent. WHO ARE YOU?! Just another busy busy hocker!! Or are u also a pervert that enjoys hearing details about these inyanim!?
Moreover, YOU are lower than a lowlife to decide on someone's guilt because a judge ordered a high bail.. If that were the case then why bother to go to trial, you nutcase.. If you would open your little brain to understand, you would see that given the nature of the allegations and environment of many children in the alleged's neighborhood, Judges in these circumstances prescribe these type bails as extra precautionary measures, in case the prosecutor's claim are proven true.
And btw, did you ever hear of someone indicted AND held on bail but was still proven innocent of the charges.. Lucky for you, we don't live communist Russia where true right to justice doesn't exist..
We are not here to question our gedolim. If this is what Rabbi Belsky said, it means that's how it is.
And like Happygirl said: the fact that this story wasn't true, it doesn't mean it never happens.
Dear TLS Editor,
Why would you remove my post?(1:04 pm)
Are you also afraid of the truth?
Dear TlS Editor,
Where is a copy of Rabbi Belsky's letter?
Just because there's a few Curious George's out there, I don't believe it is appropriate to post the Rav's letter in connection with an alleged shmutz maaseh regarding a Bachur, unless you first get that Rav's permission..
Although I have no reason to believe TLS is making this up (it would help if there was a copy of the letter posted)I do believe that there is a serious issue of molestation that exists. All too often it is swept under the rug.
Molestation is wrong and so is accusing someone of it when it is untrue.
Trachtglatt said,
"If I was the Rov, I certainly wouldn't tell YOU or people like YOU the reason why the bachur is innocent. WHO ARE YOU?! "
Somone with a child in the school were this guy taught thats who I am.
You said,
"Moreover, YOU are lower than a lowlife to decide on someone's guilt because a judge ordered a high bail.. If that were the case then why bother to go to trial, you nutcase.. "
I did not say this guy is for sure guilty I am just asking them to please explain how they are so sure he is innocent when the cops claim to have a very strong case against him. How is that unreasonable?
You said further,
"And btw, did you ever hear of someone indicted AND held on bail but was still proven innocent of the charges."
Not really with this kind of crime, have you?. (except for one famous celebrity case a while back and i wouldnt have trusted that guy aroun my kids either
I guess the "locals" didn't threaten Rabbi Belsky with his life so he was able to come out with a public condemnation
This is the problem we are facing today . This poster and many others have the attitude that if indicted ,he must be guilty . He as as much right to a presumption of innocense as the child has to be protected . Furthermore ,if he is found to be unjustly accused ,the " avla " done to him is as great or greater than what is done to a molested child . He and his family ( possibly for several future generations ) have been destroyed ,even if he is ultimately found innocent in court .
We do NOT question our Gedolim,PERIOD. Yes,this problem exists all over unfortonately(and I was one of those that wrote a long supportive message the other day in response to the letter written by "happygirl")but that does not mean that every time a story comes out it is true. Unfortonately I think most times they are true but if three prominent Rabbonim say that they have investigated the case fully and have determined it to be false then I don't question their conclusion. Now let's just wait for the courts to come out with the real story and all you guys that don't have Emunas Chachomim will have to ask mechila from them.
to anon 2:18 I say AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am anon 2:18
I have no knowledge of any facts here and I am not taking sides or vindicating anybody . i just want tp bring out a problem that many people take the position that for the protection of the children ,we have the right to at least temporarily ,do things to the accused wothouut knowing the full facts and that the rights of the child supersede the rights of the accused .This is certainly a problem in that I believe most fair minded people will agree , that in the event the accused is ultimately found to be totally innocent ,then there is no fire hot enough in gehinom to punish the one who falsely accused him and destroyed his and his future generations lives .Im not saying that I have the perfect solution to protect children in cases of doubt ,but we cant destroy peoples lives unjustly ,in the process .
1) I don't believe there is a din moiser on a rodeif.
2) Would anyone hire the accused as a tutor for their son?
3) Why was this story, from the beginning published? Why are bnei Torah (including myself) even checking up on this story?
4) This smells of typical smut-slinging against the victim's family.
5) Suggestion: only those over 40 may make comments!
every thing people r writing may b true. BUT if some one was arrested then there is some truth to the matter if u want 2 go against that then let R Belsky explain!
Its amazing how many people just state that " if someone was arrested then there is some truth to the matter " . I ask them honestly . If the arrested was your brother ,father ,son etc and you knew for a fact that the accusation was false ,would you also take that position ? Its very easy ti sit back and watch somebody elses loved one get destroyed by an accusation . Just make believe it was your loved one and then think again .
Unfortunately rabbi belsky has been on the wrong side in the past and hopefully he is right this time but in the case it is true, the allegations should be inverstigated
Vosizneias is a vile despicable blog that allows comments of all sorts to be posted aside from anything knocking them or their agenda. They obviously are SORELY lacking in Yiras Shamayim to be able to allow despicable comments to be written about our BIGGEST Gedolim. I once evn saw a comment that was making light of a statement made by none other than R' Chaim Kanievsky Shlita!! These people have no fear of Hashem or his Manhigei Hador. The sin of disgracing a Talmid Chochom let alone a Gadol Hador is one that Hashem is one of the worst in the Torah. One of today's greatest problems is that people think they "know better" than our gedolim. Some may even lead their entire lives with barely ever consulting Daas Torah!!
omg some of u people dont know what the hell u are talking about. stop talking about weather this guy did or did not do anything and START SPREADING AWARENESS so it doesn't happen again.
Victim
and caringyid knows how to speak wisely. read what he wrote on happygirls letter. there should be more like you around.
Publish Reject
Anonymous said...
I guess the "locals" didn't threaten Rabbi Belsky with his life so he was able to come out with a public condemnation
July 28, 2009 2:12 PM
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Rabbi Belsky is from the select few that is not affraid of taking the unpopular position
Dear Mr Victim.
with all due respect ,we feel for your hurt . We just want you to close your eyes and think for a moment of the same pain being felt by someone who is falsely accused and forever humiliated and has his life destroyed . His pain will never go away and he hurts probably as much or more than the hurt of a victim . We must make sure not to allow either of these people get hurt .
hey! anonymous 3:43 I AGREE WITH U ONe THOUSAND PERCENT!!!!!!!
mr victim
If my son told me that someone is molesting him....you better believe I'm going to the cops.
could someone please explain how on earth rav belske can know for sure that it didnt happen, im not questioning his ruling C"V "Rak toira he velilmod ani tzorich"
I find it vety intresting that the same people who so easly believe a story when someone is accused (in fact without even knowing one piece of information) won't believe it when a Godol who has looked at the facts of the case and concludes its a total fabrication.
Hey Anonymous 4:22
I just hope one of you neighbors don't decide one day that you molested his kid and does the same to you.
anon at 4:25 pm
I cant speak for Rabbi Belsky .
But my answer would be as follows . Of course nobody (other than Eliyohu Hanovi ) can know 100 per cent that something did not happen. But a thorough investigation can allow an odom godol or other pikeach to ascertain whether or not ,based on the facts ,there is a reasonble expectation that the charges are true or whther it is likely they are false accusations . If some kid cam over and accused you of molestation ,and a smart person checked into the allegations and decided they look fabricated ,I am pretty sure you would want everybody to know that ,this godol investigated the facts and decided ,that it did not happen . waiting for Eliyohu Hanovi to come is not a reasonable thing to expect in order to exonerate a falsely accused person
to Anonymous at 3:08
I am only 39 so maybe you don't want to listen to me but your third comment had be laughing becuase it is True. However, regarding your fourth comment maybe some nuts that are posting to the blog are mudslinging but I am sure Rabbi Belsky means leshaim shamayim. Even if he is mistaken, Gedolai Hadoar have made mistakes but we still have to respect them. For those that know history take the get of Cleve for example all the Gedolim were against Rav Abish who was a tremdous tzadik but he made a mistake.
Hey anonymous 4:35 - I just hope one of you neighbors don't decide one day {that you} to molest{ed} {his} your kid (because people like you defended him so strenously) and does the same to you.
I have to disagree..
In order to uproot this horrific murderous problem its better that we're over vigilant....
Es Laasos Lashem..
we have to pull the other way...and uproot this disease..and tar and feather some people in public...L'Maan Yishmo'u V'Yiro'u
anonymous 4:53 why don't you post your name address and phone # so those "vigilantes" who have the urge of "es laasos lashem" have some where to go with theie "tar and feathers" and you'll definitely get some "l'man yishmo'u v'yiro'u"
anon 5:26
If I ever did anything that would make me even in the least bit suspicious of such a heinous crime... I'd be the FIRST to WILLINGLY be a korbon...
There must be a reason why Rav Belsky letter was not published. The Rav probably wrote a letter but not what people are trying to convince us he wrote. He may have written that the person is innocent until proven guilty ,he may have wrote lemechash but he has a din of chezkas kashrus until proven guilty beyond doubt. I have a feeling that is what the Rav wrote.
This tar and feather comment is exactly the problem we are having as a society . No doubt there are cases of abuse and molestation and they need to be stopped to protect the innocent victims . However ,this attitudeof tar and feather believes that in the effort of protecting victims ,the ends justify the means and we must protect the victims at all costs ,even at the expense of possibly destroying a few innocently accused people ,in the process . This side blieves that it is so important to protect the victims ,that you ate allowed to take the chasnce to destroy someone elses reputation in the proces .
The other side of the coin is ,that al pi din we ,on this world ,do not have the ability to risk falsely accusing somebody ,even in the all important pursuit of protecting future victims . An am hooretz or a nn Torah jew would probably say that one should give up one persons life to save the tzibur . However ,the halachah is that ( in many cases ) we do not sacrifice one person even if it means that many more will be killed. We are not Hashems shluchim and we dont have the right to kill somebody ,even to save thousands of lives .
The analogy is that althopugh it sounds nice to say that you would rather risk destroying an innocent person reputation ,rather than having some child become a victim ,not necessarily does the Torah give us the right to do that . It might sound painful to not do anything ,but not always are we allowed to risk hurting people ,even in the pursuit of a very legitimate cause of saving lives . Obviously in dinei Shomayim there is a perfect world but in Dinei Odom we must abide by the rules ,even if it might be painful to do so .
Im not taking any sides or positions ,just giving reasonable and honest people some food for thought .
This is the blood libel of the 21st century, a child can’t sleep one night and the mother decides, that’s it my kid was molested, the question is just by who so I will have to find someone to pin it on. thats how these things start.
anonymous 5:36
if the editor wrote that he saw the letter signed by rabbi belsky, and he is quoting it??????
Is Daas Torah retracting the claim that it is all false?
hey anonymous 7:07
huh???
how does everyone know that the parents of the child are right? I just never know who to believe anymore.
This case has been on for a year. Could I ask where was Rabbi Belsky's letter & investigation B4 the police?
I don't buy it. Please don't bad mouth Rabbi Belsky, Nor the Rov who reported it, for that matter nor the alleged bochur.
This is a sad situation, stop posting with glea. It is a serious issue, & should not be in the blogging sphere.
Why must we hang out our laundry for the public to see? There are other ways to address these issues. Posting these stories on a blog is certainly not one of them!
kol hakovod for taking it down we unfortunately have plenty of other shmutz to read lately...its terrible
don’t think we needed das torah to post this in the first place common sense would say that a post like should not have been posted until all the facts have been straightened out but I’m glad its now off
anonymous 9:42
you confuse me
are you not persecuting a vicim....and btw the only proven victim right now is the one that every one is talking about... what happened to the motzi shem ra you had brought up? or maybe its a nisayon most of us do have and nebach so many are nichshul on including you..... (if it happened that you were nichshul...) Hashem yeracheim aleihem veoleinu.
Its very nice to be so quick to protect the victim just make sure you dont pick and choose which victims to protect and which one to
persecute....
anonymous 11:43
maybe you dont think period....
who are you do decide that das torah is not needed when das torah was specifically given and told differently? Im scared to even think what other things fall in to your common sense guide lines....
Do you have any idea how difficult it is for a victim of this sort of abuse to tell somebody what has been done to them??? It's so embarrasing, degrading, and shameful for the victim to confess that such things have been done to them. Believe me, nobody with in their right mind would fabricate something like this.
Besides the point, the police can't just arrest people becaue they feel like it, they need to first issue an arrest warrant in order to even make an arrest on child molestation charges. Accoring to the book "You, The Law, and New Jersey," an arrest warrant has to be issued by a court, so I highly doubt this young man was arrested on the state's whim. Just saying.
the same way dozens of ppl write how can they prove that it didnt happen, im wondering how can they prove that it did happen as well...i mean, was there camera footage or something?? i dont think so. so the same way u dont want to base ur beliefs on the words of someone who claims it is false, u cant either base it on the words of the person who claims it did happen in the first place.
How do you describe Daas Torah?
Reb Moshe Feinstein said he had Daas Torah, BC he never looked at anything else in his life. Most of todays Rabonim in the US were in schools which taught limudei chol.
I also thought that true Daas Torah forbids internet , even those who permit it for business, but not for blogging, how could Daas Torah allow a blog to post something.
to 12.48 Anon:
look again @ 9.42, no one is taking sides all names are referring to alleged victim.
Of course someone faulsly accused is a victim.
To Anonymous 2:10 AM
First of all people fabricate such or similar type of accusations all the time. There are many different reasons why someone would, either due to their ignorance in such matters which leads them to jump to conclusions, or due to psychological imbalances (which seems to apply to this case).If you would do a little research you would be shocked to see how many cases turn out to be total fabrications. People use false accusations in divorce cases at an alarming rate, even at the expense of there children and the possibility of being charged with filing a false report.
So yes people do fabricate such stories .
Secondly the police do arrest an accused solely on the word of an accuser all the time. Most of these cases are one person's word against another's.
Anon 8:22 AM- The professionals in this field have their methods to verify if in fact something not kosher did occur. We hope it didn't but from a evidence standpoint its something than can be proved whereas to say it did NOT happen is something very hard to prove, unless of course there is a strong alibi.
2:10 guy listen up. The youg teenagers these days know whats going on. On guy told me he hated his Rebbi and would've done anything to get rid of him, even make up a story. The kids these days are not stupid. They know which panic button to press.
There's a good reason why daas torah said to post this post, and there's an even better reason why daas torah said to take down this post.
How about posting Shua Finkelsteins Letter
"First of all people fabricate such or similar type of accusations all the time. There are many different reasons why someone would, either due to their ignorance in such matters which leads them to jump to conclusions, or due to psychological imbalances (which seems to apply to this case)."
Being psychologically imbalanced can be the result of being sexually abused. So the fact that the accuser is psychologically imbalance is not at all a proof that abuse did NOT happen.
That's what makes the matter so delicate...
just today there was an Article in the APP about a Lakewood public school teacher who was accused by a 16 year old and arrested and now it turns out that the prosecutor decided he was innocent and it seems she made up the story . These things happen all the time .
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