tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post8342305459863187740..comments2023-05-30T11:34:22.563-04:00Comments on The Lakewood Scoop: Lakewood Woman Receives Shocking NoteTLS Editorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11765383809123171529noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-11754622234765022042009-08-05T01:41:40.102-04:002009-08-05T01:41:40.102-04:00First- true that "below the knee" and &q...First- true that "below the knee" and "eight inches above the ankle" leave few lengths to choose from.<br />I gave up and started buying skirts that end just above the ankle. It's simpler than trying to keep my knees covered because I'm wearing a skirt that is short enough to be considered okay.<br /><br />And no, I don't think I'll be embarrassed by my tznius when I greet Moshiach. By other things, perhaps. Not by the way I dress.<br />Thanks anyways, though.chaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14023083898665410736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-39576537855870410622009-06-30T12:17:38.534-04:002009-06-30T12:17:38.534-04:00I don't have the solution to this problem. Th...I don't have the solution to this problem. The problem is not just tznius, but also some of the comments here that appear somewhat un-tznius..the yelling..the loud complaining. One small suggestion that might help (but not intended to be a total solution). Please try gentleness. Tznius is something that must come from an internal desire to make a kiddush HaShem, however small and unnoticed it might be. (Hashem will notice! just not other people) Therefore one must seek and address the root causes of un-tznius behavior, in a private and gentle way. Any sort of coercion is only a band-aid solution, which is NO SOLUTION at all! So I don't have the answers, but one must encourage one to have good middos, and *then* tznius will follow naturally. This is the more challenging, long term approach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-66142992432116546352009-06-29T18:57:38.025-04:002009-06-29T18:57:38.025-04:00wow - this was hysterical. clearly some comments h...wow - this was hysterical. clearly some comments had much thought and insight into them. clearly others didnt. either way - the reading was so captivating that i forgot to watch the tv show i was all excited about so you have all saved a little bit of my neshama. thanks!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15978929409332404645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-78656344337743821192009-06-22T16:08:30.362-04:002009-06-22T16:08:30.362-04:00On second though I will answer.
I never said she ...On second though I will answer.<br /><br />I never said she it was an admission of guilt.<br /><br />All I'm saying is the truth hits home and if it bothered her so much PERHAPS there is a reason it does.<br /><br />As for the guy I don't think he was disrespectful at all. Again its not like he said Hey woman you're a zonah cuz you're skirt isn't tznius. <br />But I guess thats a matter of opinion. <br /><br />Might I also add that you don't know me and I don't know you and you're rather rude for a stranger.<br />"Go back to school"? You may want to use some manners when communicating with strangers.I'm surprised that there is even a questions if he was right or not. He most defiantely was.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-76257901044827762562009-06-22T15:53:35.839-04:002009-06-22T15:53:35.839-04:00Clearly you just want to argue so I wont even both...Clearly you just want to argue so I wont even bother <br /><br />Wtvr.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-63614638424529937152009-06-22T15:40:02.523-04:002009-06-22T15:40:02.523-04:00Nice going changing the subject. You claimed she ...Nice going changing the subject. You claimed she "didn't want to be called on her tznius". In other words, you claim that her reaction was an admission of guilt while I told you that her reaction was about the guy's disrespect.<br /><br />If you have problems with reading comprehension, go back to school.Ookamikunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01145237927656807738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-362361019010241562009-06-22T14:31:43.642-04:002009-06-22T14:31:43.642-04:00"So if someone comes over to me and says that..."So if someone comes over to me and says that I'm a shaigetz because I trim my beard and I tell him to mind his #$%@ business, that means I think he's right?!"<br /><br />Of course not. No one said she was a shaigetz. No one called her a whore. No one said anything derogative to her at all. This wasn't someone saying "Hey lady, You're a zonah cuz you're skirt is too short.<br /><br /> If someone comes over to you and tells you your yarmulka fell off would you tell him to #$%@ off? <br /><br />In addition to that you're mixing a gray area and a black area. <br />A woman showing her knees is wrong<br />Trimming your beard is you're own business... Its not like you'll be tempting anyone...<br /><br />Two completely different issues that are not comparable!I'm surprised that there is even a questions if he was right or not. He most defiantely was.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-48355674180531636472009-06-22T13:37:05.450-04:002009-06-22T13:37:05.450-04:00"...and the fact that she was so outraged sho..."...and the fact that she was so outraged shows a bit of her true inner self. (perhaps she didn't want to be called on her tznius...)"<br /><br />Really? How did you come up with such a brilliant deduction?<br />So if someone comes over to me and says that I'm a shaigetz because I trim my beard and I tell him to mind his #$%@ business, that means I think he's right?!Ookamikunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01145237927656807738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-27514061753224942942009-06-22T12:50:42.808-04:002009-06-22T12:50:42.808-04:001) there are 2 separate rooms for men and woman so...1) there are 2 separate rooms for men and woman so how would he know unless he was looking (even if it was the same room ... if something bothers you so much dont look.) If you are on a train and u see 2 people kissing YOU AVERT YOUR EYES!!!<br /><br />2) You dont give someone a paper that you wrote on ESPECIALLY if you do not know how to spell, it just leads to your embarrassment. If you were so frum to look at her legs and write a note to communicate with her, be normal and tell her to her face. OH if you are too shy to say it, dont write it and DO NOT GIVE IT TO A CHILD TO GIVE TO HER MOTHER. (That overtips the scale of fakers!!)<br /><br />3)Its not your business and place to say anything so if you feel the need to write a note (you know, to show off how frum you are), start it like that. Something like..."Hi I know this is not my place to say it nor is my business, but i wrote this note just incase you were unaware of the fact that your dress was not covering your KNEES from the back. Sorry to bother you about this, just trying to be considerate. Have a good day."<br /><br />Oh and by the way GROW UP cuz eventually you will leave that little box taht you live in and realize there is a real world out there and you need to prepare yourself to handle it. There is no escape and you just have to accept it. EVEN if you are a Rabbi and you need to talk to a childs parent and chas visholom you had to speak to his mother cuz his father was not living... YOU WILL HAVE TO TALK TO A GIRL (sorry to bring this to such a surprise.) Im not Pro a guy and girl talking to one another but this was taken WAY TOO FAR. We are a nation of one and we promote marriage and the idea of woman and men talking and comunicating. obviously there is an extent to this and you should keep your mind on torah and mitzvot. but as a teenager, you should not be talking to girls so that you can focus on hashem. But if you need something from a bakery and the person behind the counter was a woman, there is no issur in talking to her. Here too there is no issur to hand her the paper.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-32682432188287081282009-06-22T11:27:28.731-04:002009-06-22T11:27:28.731-04:00Firstly, I don't think she was actually dresse...Firstly, I don't think she was actually dressed like a slut or whore simply because he would not have written the note. I would like to think that he would have known a hopeless cause when he saw one. <br /><br />That being said I assume he really thought she didn't know and said it with the best of intentions.<br /><br />In addition to that he didn't say your skirt is too short. He said it isn't covering your knees "in back" meaning that other than that I would think the woman was dressed appropriately. I think that this falls into the same catagory of having a leaf in your hair. You'd want someone to tell you it was there! When I'm walking down the street and I see something like that I would absolutly inform them in a kind way so that they aren't embarrassed just like this young man did.<br /><br />If my husband came home at the end of the day and said you know this is what i did today I think I'd be proud of him. <br /><br />As a woman if this happened to me I would not be as disgusted by it as this woman was. I'm sure he said it with the best of intentions and the fact that she was so outraged shows a bit of her true inner self. (perhaps she didn't want to be called on her tznius...) I think that overall the only thing that would bother me is I'd be shocked at the manner in which he wrote it.<br /><br />The note should have said something like this "I know its not my place but I thought you should know that your skirt is not covering your knees in the back"<br /><br />The fact that he gave it to her child was brilliant! Most definately not something to look down upon.<br /><br />We all know that there is a problem with tznius these days. I think that everyone can admit that tznius levels have gone down over recent years. (I do not think the terms sluts and whores is an appropriate term. Its not like they are wearing mini skirts and hooker shoes...) I think that its just a matter of crossing the boundry from "put together and dressed up" to "overdone" Being a woman I can say that is by far the most difficult struggle I have. Each morning when getting dressed I want to look good and make sure I do not cross over the line into provacative. The same way we women cannot understand what we are doing to you men when we are "over the line" you men cannot understand how difficult it is for us to be perfectly tznius.<br /><br />At this point most of you are thinking that I am a frummie etc. but know this: I do not live or ever will live in lakewood. That lifestyle isn't for me... I do wear make up daily. I get dressed well and I know my fashion. But I can honestly say that I am tzinus and while i'm well dressed i am not provacative. The only person who ever sees that side of me is my husband. <br /><br />I am not the ideal frum person... and with that I still think the young man who wrote the note was right!I'm surprised that there is even a questions if he was right or not. He most defiantely was.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-47183763962755684992009-06-16T20:08:21.926-04:002009-06-16T20:08:21.926-04:00And still commenting as anonymous. Pathetic.And still commenting as anonymous. Pathetic.Ookamikunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01145237927656807738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-16843079024024085542009-06-16T20:05:59.656-04:002009-06-16T20:05:59.656-04:00I can see you are a wise and sensitive person. So ...I can see you are a wise and sensitive person. So why do you hide your sensitivity to yiddishkeit behind an angry mask? You wouldn't be getting so defensive and angry if you honestly thought your way of writing is appropriate.<br />Of course all the name calling and bashing is inappropriate. The only difference here is the more graphic explicit comments. It was nothing personal against you (the constitution provides you with the freedom of press) I was actually expressing my surprise that the comment was not censored since this blogspot claims to be torah oriented.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-89882865315820913602009-06-16T10:24:29.706-04:002009-06-16T10:24:29.706-04:00Anonymous - Did you actually read my post or did y...Anonymous - Did you actually read my post or did you just got offended because I defined a word? People who defended this note are liars, cheats, demean women, misrepresent torah and follow in the ways of goyim and cowards.<br /><br />Liars? They claim Pinchas killed people in the desert for wearing short skirts.<br /><br />Cheats? They cheat frum world by misrepresenting Jewish laws and claiming that Tzniousness is worse than adultery, idolatry and murder.<br /><br />Demean Women? They force women into uncomfortable clothing all in the name of made up religious laws, so that these women lose sight of the real world instead of becoming strong and self reliant.<br /><br />Misrepresent Torah? Read above about Pinchas and what is worse untzniousness or murder/adultery/idolatry.<br /><br />Follow in the way of goyim? Goyim, specifically Christians and Muslims consider all sexual activity sinful. In contrast, Judaism, compares sex to food as one necessity and nothing to be ashamed of. In Talmudic times people did not hide the facts of sex from their children and did not separate men from women on each and every occasion. Now, they think that definition of the word "fornication" is vulgar or too graphic.<br /><br />Coward? Yes, because they don't use their real name and hide under the cover of the anonymous.<br /><br />Now, let me defend myself. You call my definition of a word as too vulgar, yet you seem to have no problem with commenters here, who are representatives of the Lakewood community, calling Lakewood's married women whores. Let me define whore for you straight from the dictionary: "a woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse, usually for money; prostitute; harlot; strumpet." You have no problem with accusing married women of cheating on their husbands, you have no problem of them having Momzerim children, you have no problems of claiming that that their husbands are ok with that type of behaivor... But you are offended when I defined a word? YOU ARE A HYPOCRAT!!!mlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-81095148983501331282009-06-15T16:47:23.366-04:002009-06-15T16:47:23.366-04:00Many of these comments are inappropriate, but Mr. ...Many of these comments are inappropriate, but Mr. Moderator, Don't you find Mlevin's comment way too graphic for this blogspot?<br />Speaking of tznius....There is lots to tznius besides dress and deep down each one of knows that we have alot to improve in tznius if we don't want to be embarrased in front of mashiach. There's no reason to get defensive or bash eachother. This is just a reflection of the generation and every one of us can think of ways to improve if we'd just be honest with ourselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-82328129628934175072009-06-14T00:29:00.634-04:002009-06-14T00:29:00.634-04:00This is all very bizarre.
First of all, I object...This is all very bizarre. <br /><br />First of all, I object to Jewish women in Lakewood being described as dressing like whores. Clearly, you do not know what whores dress like. This is a good thing. If you <i>do</i> know what whores dress like, then you have no right to comment in the way you do. You have your own modesty issues.<br /><br />Now, the description that religious women dress less modestly than non-Jewish women in the workplace is unfair. <br /><br />I'm a religious woman in a secular workplace. And let me tell you, that striking a balance is <i>hard</i> because we have to wear skirts. Those oh-so-modest non-Jewish women are wearing trousers, probably loose and modest, but pants nonetheless. <br /><br />I have to wear a skirt. I feel very awkward and immodest about exposing my lower legs in an office, but I don't have a choice, because I need to look businesslike, and I can't do that in an ankle-length skirt. <br /><br />I do not have similar reservations about lower-leg exposure in the street because, quite frankly, I'm comparatively tame. If any guy can walk past a billboard and the Hispanic women on the street, they can handle my calves. <br /><br />If a guy finds the back of a woman's knees provocative, then I have to say, he's got trouble. Either he needs more exposure to knee-backs so he becomes inured, or he needs to get married so he has different things on his mind, or he needs psychological help. <br /><br />That said, I agree that women need to be careful how they dress and that all sides of their knees are covered. But our silly "hilchos" tznius that the schools invent just make life more difficult. <br /><br />The big problem is the "rule" against skirts to the ankles. That kind of limits what you can buy to "short" skirts. But there are very few skirts sold that cover the knee. This is further made difficult by the fact that the art of wearing a skirt is being lost among non-Jews, leading to more skirts being sold that fit more like jeans than skirts. <br /><br />So it's tough. And probably, the woman bought the skirt figuring she'd keep it pulled low and it would be ok. And after coming out of the doctor's office it was slightly hitched up in back. A problem, but really nothing to start flaming about. <br /><br />Come on, people. The world isn't full of antagonistic people out to get you. Everyone is well-meaning, but has lapses. When you see the world that way it will look much nicer.Lonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-86515038789983310152009-06-08T00:08:42.079-04:002009-06-08T00:08:42.079-04:00HE SHOULD NOT BE LOOKING AT HER
THE END!!!!!!!!!!!...HE SHOULD NOT BE LOOKING AT HER<br />THE END!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />The problem is obviously with HIM!!! Of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-51337307630966228692009-06-07T16:33:16.499-04:002009-06-07T16:33:16.499-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.mlevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831542484906424230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-67586966620453972352009-05-31T12:50:26.819-04:002009-05-31T12:50:26.819-04:00Not gonna bother reading the 95 comments.
One, yo...Not gonna bother reading the 95 comments.<br /><br />One, you should disable anonymous commenting. Bunch of cowards who spew venom but hide their names.<br /><br />Two, in your place, though I am a guy, I would turn to the guy and yell "Keep your eyes to yourself!"Ookamikunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01145237927656807738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-14179241465185949182009-05-29T12:15:11.201-04:002009-05-29T12:15:11.201-04:00It's sad to think that there are Jewish men with s...It's sad to think that there are Jewish men with so little self-control or mental discipline that the sight of the back of a woman's knee leaves them highly aroused and unable to control themselves. I suppose that since our men can't seem to keep their eyes off the bodies of other men's wives, the only solution will be to insist that all our women must wear burkas when they leave the house. It works for the Taliban, and we all know what a wonderful society they created when they were in power.Eliyahuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05182112478879125798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-39579739113536618232009-05-28T09:08:40.998-04:002009-05-28T09:08:40.998-04:00It is forbidden to gaze upon a woman according to ...It is forbidden to gaze upon a woman according to all poskim -so how did this idiot notice???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-45391027390349969952009-05-27T17:57:40.030-04:002009-05-27T17:57:40.030-04:00Like Homer says-
It's funny 'cause I don't know th...Like Homer says-<br />It's funny 'cause I don't know them.Lakewood Falling Downhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14483392684657880997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-27006714504739358402009-05-27T15:43:10.140-04:002009-05-27T15:43:10.140-04:00Anon 3:28- I happen to be Chabad, and I try to use...Anon 3:28- I happen to be Chabad, and I try to use the internet for good. Internet is something that can go either way (agav, same with every other physical thing, from eating to the issue of men looking at women), and there's no reason to avoid the internet if you can be elevating it instead.chaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14023083898665410736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-30916990608229869822009-05-27T15:28:12.189-04:002009-05-27T15:28:12.189-04:00Ladies and gentlemen, have you noticed that we are...Ladies and gentlemen, have you noticed that we are all on the treifineh internet ...<br /><br />nuff said.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-61844002750221849402009-05-27T13:57:07.830-04:002009-05-27T13:57:07.830-04:00Sh- "yidden who are frum keep hilchos tznius"
I'd...Sh- "yidden who are frum keep hilchos tznius"<br /><br />I'd like you to go look up hilchos tznius in the KS"A and tell me what you find. Then tell me whether you actually know if people keep it or not.<br /><br />To the rest of you- No, he should not have been looking. Yes, it is natural to give a glance. Then he should avert his eyes. If he did that, he's fine. And if he told her in a tznius way, and in a way that did not embarrass her, he is fine. Kol hakavod lo for doing what I never get the guts to do. Women should not dress provocatively outside the house. They do so in order to attract attention, which is the very opposite of tznius.chaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14023083898665410736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7968767325807262076.post-5087288909312970512009-05-27T04:41:42.344-04:002009-05-27T04:41:42.344-04:00I would send the scrap back, corrected in red ink,...I would send the scrap back, corrected in red ink, and add a comment like "Do something for your orthography before you look at women's knees. That's more urgent."shoshinoreply@blogger.com